Carolyn King Waller
Lisa: Carolyn, today let’s dish on Ethel Kennedy. What were you telling me about her anger?
Bobby Kennedy California Primary Victory Party at the L.A. Ambassador Hotel, June 5, 1968, the night of his assassination
Carolyn: She loved Bobby so. She urged him to run for the presidency in 1968 and then, of course, he was assassinated. Jackie (Kennedy) had said that the same thing that had happened to Jack (murder) would happen to Bobby, but Ethel wouldn’t listen, and Jackie was right. But Ethel was the chief component in having Bobby run. She was extremely ambitious for Bobby. When Bobby started to run, Jackie said, “Oh, we’ll be in the White House again!”
And Ethel said, “Who is this we?”
Ethel’s anger was displaced when Bobby died. She was more Kennedy than Kennedy. Kennedys were always told not to show anything but courage to the outside world. Ethel couldn’t show the world that she was in private anguish over the loss of her beloved Bobby after he died. So she had displaced anger that she vented on her oldest sons: Joseph, Bobby Jr., and David – David had a drug problem but that had a lot of reasons to it. Bobby Jr. and Joseph got the worst of her wrath.
She pretty much let those kids run wild. She made them not want to be at home because she was raging. They became homeless in Hyannisport and Hickory Hill. They didn’t have a place to sleep at home. She sent them away the summer Bobby died. They were unwelcome at Ethel’s house. Some of the Kennedy elders kept their children away from Ethel’s kids because they were so wild. Ethel lived an unexamined life.
Lisa: Explain.
Carolyn: She never said I’m so angry, I’m so sad. She whaled into her older sons. She beat them with a hair brush. She sublimated her sadness. She had a black rage. For example, years earlier, when she found out that (actor) Paul Newman had become a supporter of Kenneth Keating of New York, a rival of Bobby Kennedy’s, she got mad. On a pretext, she invited Paul to play a friendly game of tennis with her.
Paul Newman
LaDonna Harris witnessed the match:
“From the moment they got on the court, Ethel wouldn’t let up on Paul. Ethel has an unhealthy kind of competitiveness, a masculine kind of meanness. She told him he was a lousy player. She teased him nonstop….He just didn’t know how to deal with it. He finally walked off the court. He had tears in his eyes.” (1)
Carolyn: Ethel had a quirky sense of humor. She used live frogs for centerpieces at her dinner parties. People got pushed into swimming pools at her parties.
Bobby and Ethel Kennedy
I think she called Lyndon Johnson Uncle Cornpone. I think she looked for weaknesses in others and then hurt them with it. I think the whole point here is that Ethel had displaced anger, her early years – she grew up in an atmosphere of too much liquor, bad upbringing – they let them run wild. They drove fast. Had a lot of money. She was ruthless. Bobby, too. But he was kinder. He liked children and animals. But not Ethel. She was cruel. Bobby was spiritual. He had a good side; he was a fine father. His kids somewhat fell apart when he died because they needed his nurturing. Bobby was the nurturer; that’s it.
(1) Oppenheimer, Jerry. The Other Mrs. Kennedy. (New York: St. Martin’s Press, 1994)
Lisa's History Room 
Lisa, I really like your postings. I learn tidbits of history that I never suspected. Some of them may come back to haunt me into a book. Thank you for these unexpected bits of knowledge.
LikeLike
Judy, hi! Thank you for the kind words. So many people out there are turned off to history. It’s up to you and me to change that impression. Keep coming back and thank you for visiting. I always am glad to hear from you.
LikeLike
Thank you for posting this very interesting article about Ethel Kennedy. I know one of her sons quite well and unfortunately, he inherited his mother’s arrogance, sense of entitlement,mean-spiritedness, and angry, uncontrolled rages. His relationships with women have been troubled and at times even violent, most likely due to having such a monster for a mother.
It is sad but understandable. After all, you can’t have a mother who alternates between ignoring you and beating you with a hairbrush and expect to turn out halfway normal. To say nothing of having your father murdered when you were a child, left to basically fend for yourself with 10 siblings.
However, this does not excuse any abusive behavior on the part of Ethel and her children.
LikeLike
Annie, my mother was anxious about posting this critique of Ethel Kennedy. Thank you for your very helpful comment. There is a very good biography of Ethel – The Other Mrs. Kennedy, by Jerry Oppenheimer – that describes her dysfunctional upbringing as a privileged Skakel. Her mother, Big Ann, was off doing her own thing instead of tending to her kids. Ethel didn’t have a very good role model for a mother.
Please keep coming back to Lisa’s History Room. Lisa
LikeLike
I have often wondered why the Kennedys felt the need to breed so (often!)…..Especially, when Ethel didnt particularly care for children.Dont tell me ! Its the old catholisism thing! Can you imagine marrying a Kennedy, and saying ” I only want two children” Jaqui had the right idea…..Let us hope that Ethel, treats her grandchildren, with love and affection.
LikeLike
Jackie gave birth to 2 other children besides the 2 who lived: stillborn Arabella (b. and d. 1956) and Patrick (b. and d. 1963). Jackie had just given birth to John Jr. when Jack Kennedy was inaugurated. Jackie loved, cherished her children. The Kennedys were very competitive in sports, politics. It’s no surprise that Ethel – who was considered more Kennedy than the Kennedys – would transform conception into a sport of who could do it more! She won!
LikeLike
“Jackie had the right idea”? I don’t think she did anything to end up with a small family . She had a miscarriage in 1955(first pregnancy), then gave birth to a stillborn daughter the year after that , Arabella, in 1956. Then gave birth to another daughter the year after that, Caroline, born healthy in 1957. Then, had a son, John Jr., three years later. Then, had another son less than three years later, Patrick, who lived only three days. The poor woman’s body hardly had a break by today’s standards. I don’t know how Ethel did it. :O and both had amazing figures for so many pregnancies, btw (both were pretty athletic).
Jackie would’ve had 5 children had the daughter she miscarried, the stillborn daughter she had after that, Arabella, and her son Patrick all lived. She and JFK would’ve loved ro have had so many children, they wanted a large family, they were KENNEDYS.
LikeLike
Vanessa, I don’t see a “Patricia shcroft” to reply to in this thread on Ethel Kennedy. Did you mean to comment on another Jackie post? Sincerely, Lisa
LikeLike
I’m sad for Ethel. She was a product of her environment and of her time. To be in the room as her husband was assassinated..how can anyone judge her? I certainly would not seek to judge.
LikeLike
Ethel badly wanted Bobby to run for president – even though many warned her against the danger, including Jackie. Her husband was sacrificed to her own selfish ambition for the White House.
LikeLike
i feel that ethel was very abusive and did not think of the consequence of her actions on her children. it seems that she has narcissism in her which is unhealthy and does not set a good example for her children. she was very abusive rather that guiding them and seemed to enjoy hurting people.
LikeLike
Ethel’s parents did not set a good example for her as a parent.
LikeLike
Whenever I hear about her tennis matches after Bobby’s death – while still pregnant with Rory – I can’t helpt but wonder if it was a way of not only punishing herself for pushing him so hard to become President, but also a way of punishing her children. I mean, if she couldn’t get the others on the court for a grueling game, she had one inside her who couldn’t protest.
Does that make sense?
That thought, added to the fact that people were worried for the baby when she locked herself in her bedroom after the funeral (I think it was after the funeral?) because she was so destraught and not eating… it just makes me wonder.
And poor David… the guy definitely punished himself enough without his mother’s influence. I think he always carried guilt over the assasination… I mean, Bobby had just saved him from drowning shortly beforehand and then he couldn’t return the favor by saving his dad. They were also extremely close since Bobby was also a third born son and both were extremely, emotionally sensitive. I read that Bobby was always worrying over what would become of David since he was lost in the shuffle – again, like father like son – and so timid and sensitive.
If he had been dealt a better hand in life, I personally think he would have followed in his father’s footsteps – only he would have won the White House and, hopefully, been able to comb the grey in his hair. =)
LikeLike
Interesting thoughts, Erin. Thanks for sharing.
LikeLike
I met Mrs. Kennedy only once in a private meeting and I found her to be very caring about her family. I never sensed any of the anger you referred to.
LikeLike
That is fortunate.
LikeLike
I have watched all the movies and documentaries about the life and times of The Kennedys. I have always heard about Ethel Kennedy. I didn’t know she was such a tough mother. Why did she have children if she didn’t like them?
Is Ethel Kennedy still alive, and how old is she? I can’t believe that Ethel and Bobby had 11 children. I know that Bobby and Jackie shared a special relationship after John’s death in 1963.
I got the feeling that Jackie and Ethel didn’t like each other. Was Ethel jealous over Jackie? I believe that Jackie was a better mother than Ethel was to her 11 children.
I don’t think that Jackie ever hit her children with anything. Jack was an excellent president until his assasination in 1963. I believe that Bobby would’ve been an excellent president as well, if he didn’t get assasinated in 1968. Maybe Ted Kennedy, Jr. or Bobby Kennedy, Jr. could run as the next President.
I hope they would stop immigration, taxes, and the economy. But, don’t stop healthcare, insurance, and jobs for people with disabilities. Get rid of poor, immigrants, and all of the criminals in the world. Please make our world a safer and cleaner environment. I know that Ethel Kennedy and her children are Catholic. But, I don’t know if she is as religious as her mother-in-law Rose Kennedy was.
I watched the recent documentary film about The Kennedys on the Reelz Channel, and I didn’t think it was as good as the other films and documentaries about The Kennedys and The Fitzgeralds. I liked the Camelot years of The Kennedys. What were the exact problems with Rosemary Kennedy?
I understand she died in 2005 at the age of 80. She died in the institution she was living in since she had a lobotomy at the age of 23. Was Rosemary Kennedy mentally ill, or did she have any type of disabilty that caused her outbursts and violent rages?
I know that Bobby and Ted Kennedy’s children are the ones who remain. What are their names? I don’t believe that Caroline Kennedy could become a president. I’m not sure if I should like Ethel Kennedy. I wasn’t even around during the Jack and Bobby’s assasinations.
But, I’ve heard about them and the Kennedy family from my dad. It sounds like Ethel Kennedy wasn’t a very good mother, because her parents were bad role models to her while she was growing up. These are my opinions about Ethel Kennedy. Contact me back at NicoleBY33@aol.com. bye.
Sincerely,
Nicole Yellig
LikeLike
Nicole, I enjoyed reading your comments. There are so many good books and websites on the Kennedys that could answer your many questions. I love reading about the Kennedys and you will, too. There are many posts here on my blog, particularly about Jackie, if you are interested. Thanks for visiting Lisa’s History Room.
LikeLike
This post is fascinating, but I’m curious about how your interviewee was privy to this information about Ethel Kennedy. Probably just an oversight, but you don’t mention it. Thanks.
LikeLike
Mama is well versed in Kennedy history.
LikeLike
I loved reading your views. I am totally fascinated by the Kennedys, (even though I wasnt born until 1966). I just watched The Kennedys miniseries which i believe wasnt aired in the USA. Towards the end of the final episode I got the feeling that Bobby and Jackie were ‘close’. She seemed more suited to him than Ethel. A very charasmatic family – but very tragic too.
LikeLike
I also just finished watching the mini series about the Kennedys and I got the same impression about Bobby and Jackie. Hmmm…..
LikeLike
Loved reading this article. I never knew! It’s no wonder your photos sometimes reflect rich secrets you hold 🙂
LikeLike
Susie, you give me too much credit –
LikeLike
I was wondering, I read an article that talks about Aristotle Onasis paying for Robert’s assassination. What are your thoughts on that? Do you think, if Ethyl knew that, would she have blamed Jackie for her husband’s death?
LikeLike
Jackie married Onassis after Bobbie K was assassinated. Ethel had plenty to blame Jackie for – stealing her husband, for starters. Bobby Kennedy went after the mob when he was Atty General under JFK. They are his more likely assassins, though Onassis did hate Bobby.
LikeLike
Seems to me you have big Ethel Kennedy-issues. And the woman doesn’t even have a possibility to defend her self against what you claime to know.
LikeLike
She is a public figure.
LikeLike
I’m also watching the Kennedy miniseries and reading the book ‘Ethel – The other Kennedy Woman’. I find them to be such a fascinating family but then again there were/are so many of them. Bobby had the best supporter with Ethel, she is to be admired for standing by him, you did the wrong thing by Bobby and she would just pretend you didn’t exist anymore. She was his best friend. He came before anyone or anything. I love reading about the parties they had! Throwing people in the pool, food fights and Ethel changing name places around at the table…it used to throw everyone off! LOL. She came from a family that were privaleged and had EVERYTHING and walked into a family the same. She never wanted for anything. Maybe that is where hers sense of entitlement comes from. I haven’t got up to Bobbys death yet and how she reacted. As far as the miniseries goes they portray JFK as being on the weak side and Bobby holding him up and making a lot of decisions for him. I can remember Bobbys death. I like the Kennedys. they really did fight for the underdog. Bobby was my favourite.
LikeLike
Jacky, I’ve not watched the miniseries but it sounds entertaining. Ethel came from a wild and crazy family, the Skakels.
LikeLike
I am also fascinated by the Kennedys.
And I totally agree with you….I think Ethel and Bobby were great together….well from watching the mini series anyway. He was also my favorite and Ethel just seemed very fun-loving.
Of course, I am not sure how I would react to my husband dying….especially in the way that Bobby died. I would hope I wouldn’t react in such a manner as you say Ethel did, but then I never like to say what I would or would not do because you just never know what your emotions are going to put you through. If this is all true, then I hope she has overcome that part of herself and her life.
It’s hard to lose your best friend. And it seems like that’s how close her and Bobby were.
LikeLike
I really enjoyed the miniseries. Okay, it was a bit soapish but it was good viewing and I thought all the actors were very good.
LikeLike
bobby & ethel they had a lifestyle we can only dream, sadly this came at a price, a future president gunned down before he made his impact as leader of the u.s, he had morals and a aim to sucseed no matter what, that is what i admire of bobby.and the love he had for his children which you can clearly see with home movies, poor ethel lost so much i’m led to understand she was’nt exactly mother of the year and that will probably live with her all her life, but did she grow into a better mother!! Only her children can comment on that, i wonder if house keepers etc made comments of there time in the kennedy household, and the kennedys off are jack and jackie they where the american dream of how family should be the first ladys style,elegance, nature,and parents to admire and values. I’v watched the kennedys 8part series and have to say you can see such political inspiration of the family and yes the contravosy, but i love it and shows the family well and they should be proud
LikeLike
The Kennedys are fascinating to study.
LikeLike
lisa waller, can you tell me did any household staff talk about the kennedys ie book or documentry etc , lisa s, x
LikeLike
Lisa, I would imagine that staffers have spoken anonymously to Kennedy biographers over the years only to be referred to in print as “inside sources.”
LikeLike
I have seen the Reelz miniseries and didn’t think much of it although it did show some interesting sides to Bobby (his fatherly side). I have always suspected that Ethel was rougher and more competitive. A life of privilege isn’t always a life of ease. She was most definitely a product of her times and I don’t think her maternal style was all that unique for the period in which she raised her children.
I am intrigued by your article and I am going to pick up The Other Mrs. Kennedy. Thanks and by the way I really love your site, I studied history and hardly get a chance to indulge this love of mine, except now through your blog! Thank you.
LikeLike
Dana, I write this blog for you. Tell your friends about Lisa’s History Room.
LikeLike
ethels family history of The skakels are a crazy family from 2 cousins related a murders of 15YR old martha moxley. 7yr old kathleen hagmann And another incidemt of negligence of 6 yr old holly obrien. I dont know what happened to suspects if convicted Or not of frances michael skakel or michael skakel. Anyone Know?
LikeLike
just tried toget a book in Lverpool England library only to ne told the were none. They said there were no interest in Ethel Kennedy, I cant believe it i find the whole family fascinating
Eleanor
LikeLike
Jackie Ethel Joan by Taraborrelli is one of the best.
LikeLike
Iam interested in the kennedy’s and all aspects of their lives i did watch the documentary concerning the tapes of Jackie Kennedy just released, but have to say whatever this woman was or is she has a right to public decency and she is not a public figure as you say but the wife of one and gossip causes pain, have you lost a loved one? and felt the grief left alone with your whole life gone in an instant, gossip on perhaps it makes you fell good
LikeLike
Ann, this is not gossip, but substantiated by fact. I’m going to let your comments stay on this blog, even though your last statement was cruel (and contains a misspelling). Remember, let’s keep the discourse civil.
LikeLike
I think it is a shame that Ethel has never given a lengthy interview about her years as a Kennedy. She is in her 80’s now so I doubt that she ever will. She said she would rather have another baby than do an interview. It would have been most interesting to hear her experiences and thoughts. Maybe it would be too painful for her.
LikeLike
I didn’t know this about Ethel.
LikeLike
Funny I put that post up, I got an email saying that Ethel and 7 of her children have done a documentry about their lives. It will be shown 2012. I will be looking forward to this!
LikeLike
We’ll both tune in!
LikeLike
There are two days that I shall never forget: the day President Kennedy was murdered, and the day Sen. Robert Kennedy’s life was ended in the same way. The images of our First Lady Jackie Kennedy wearing her blood stained suit as L.B.Johnson swore the oath of President of the United States. As in 1968 I remember Mrs. Robert (Ethel) Kennedy screaming in horror as she watched her Bobby die in her arms. Unlike Jackie, who was left a widow with their two children to raise, Ethel was left with eleven children to raise on her own. Ethel has remained Robert Kennedy’s widow. I had always thought that Ethel was a good mother, as fine as could be expected, given the number of children she raised alone. I can’t imagine Ethel ranting and raving like some lunatic at her children! As for the force behind Bobby’s run for the Presidency, she believed that Bobby should carry the torch and pick up where J.F.K. left off. Ethel loved Bobby and their children, as well. Was she a “perfect” mother; is there such a thing?
LikeLike
Amy, I enjoyed your comments. A good read on Ethel is The Other Mrs. Kennedy by Jerry Oppenheimer. Ethel came from a wild and unruly household and hers with Bobby was one and the same.
LikeLike
Thank you Lisa, glad you enjoyed my comments. I have read the book ‘The Other Mrs. Kennedy’ and have to agree to an extent that Ethel did come from a wild family,to say the least. I however have always thought that Ethel was a good wife to Bobby and did her best after his death to raise their children. Ethel was always loyal to the Kennedy family and had a great deal of respect for Rose, her faith and ability to survive the tragedies that fell upon them. Lisa did you watch ‘The Kennedy’s’ the mini series that aired last Spring,if so what’s your critique? I thought it played more like a soap opera than a historically based account of the Kennedy family.
LikeLike
Amy, I can’t watch TV biopics. I am always worried that the fiction will seep into my brain and confuse what facts lie there. Ethel came from a very alcoholic and dysfunctional family. True, she was very loyal to the Kennedys. Some said she was more of a “Kennedy” than some of them!
LikeLike
This was a very interesting post! I was never very intrigued with Ethel Kennedy – probably because as a young child I was dazzled by Jacqueline and Ethel seemed drab to me by comparison and that never changed. However, I remember reading recently in the book “Come to the Edge” written by JFK jr’s one-time love interest, Christina Haag, of an incident she and JFK jr. experienced with Ethel at one of the family homes and subsequent comments he made about his aunt that led me to believe she was a very difficult person to be around!
LikeLike
What was the comment Ethel made? What did JFKjr have to say about her?
LikeLike
Jacky, could you ask your question again? I’m clear about the reference.
LikeLike
I was replying to bloggingfromthebog Lisa. Just curious about the incident that JFK Jnr and his girlfriend had with Ethel.
LikeLike
I’m sorry that I can’t answer this question, Jacky.
LikeLike
I have an ebook of Christina Haag’s “Come to the Edge” but have only skimmed through it so I haven’t gotten to the part about Ethel… However, I just had to respond and say that it’s amazingly written and seems very respectful & loving towards John Jr. Even if I haven’t read it clear through I’d still recommend it to fellow Kennedy fans 😉
Oh! and one that I wouldn’t really recommend? Well, I hate giving bad reviews or even slightly negative ones but… I recently read one by his former George secretary and didn’t enjoy it too much; despite being about John Jr, it seemed more focused on her and her family than anything! And Carolyn… this book just sealed my dislike of her… The author tried to make her likable and argue about the bad press she got but I just found her spoiled and childish (like dropping out of Rory’s wedding at the last minute) and so unfair to John Jr. BUT I did enjoy reading about their little “old couple” bickering; and how caring and understanding a friend/man he could be.
LikeLike
I just received an alert today that ‘Ethel’ the documentary produced by her daughter Rory will be released on DVD in Spring, that is USA Springtime. I am really looking forward to buying this.
LikeLike
Hi all-RFK’s widow might be a difficult personality, but I think she was a much better wife to him than he was a husband to her. He betrayed her constantly-reportedly even with his own dead brother’s widow which was unbelievably cruel if true.(And what does that say about “classy” Jacqueline ??!) She should have divorced him for that alone. And I have also read that she urged him to run for President because she was convinced that deep inside it’s what he really wanted. She knew him well. Two sides to every story. I saw the documentary that her daughter Rory did. Her surviving children and grandchildren adore and revere her. Maybe she has mellowed with age. God bless her, I say.
LikeLike
Despite being a Skakel (much wealthier than the Kennedys), she for some odd reason was determined to be married to a Kennedy at all costs, even to the point of not remarrying so she would not have to change her name. Jackie and Robert did exchange quite knowing looks, strangely even in Ethel’s presence. I always wondered why after his death she never returned to her Skakel roots.
LikeLike
I feel it was rude some comments people posted Ethel was not like that and was a strong woman considering all the deaths in her family an having to practically raising 11 kids on her own. She is a very inspirational woman.
LikeLike
I watched ” Ethel ” and I did enjoy a good part of it though , Ethel does seem to be competitive as heck and sending her older kids away at still a young age I didn’t much care for . She probably did it for herself more than for the children’s sakes. Too many kids causes confusion and some do get lost in with all the kaos.I came from a family of six . That was plenty ! I cry every November still over Pres Kennedy and Robert Kennedy. I was little but recall the president being blown Away ! I’m sure Ethel has had more help than you could imagine .my mom did all the cooking , sewing :Dr , etc my father brought home the check and it wasn’t much for a farmer. I do want to read the other Mrs Kennedy’s. Thank you.
LikeLike
Mae, thanks for visiting Lisa’s History Room.
LikeLike